Airport CEO 1.0-0 released

[Olof]

@fredehorn

I have to correct you on that. In my opinion it makes a lot of sense to work hard on a game that needs work because it is not finished, simple as that. And I’m not talking about content, I’m talking about bugs, that one obviously has to report several times before you notice them and with more than 1300h playing this game I am quite confident, that the bugs that I’m reporting are actual bugs. So please tell me what I have to do in order for you to finally notice my bug reports.

You can either send a support message to support@airportceo.com mentioning the specific bug report number(s) and we’ll have a direct communication there, out outline the bug report number(s) here with an expanded discussion on what the issue is. It might be that your specific reports lack enough information to be reproduced and if you let us know the number here we can check it out specifically.

@Pasi

Security zones bug out in major way when you do big changes. For example build a new terminal and demolish 95% of the old one, hook them together and you see that zones don’t get connected, especially not between several floors connected with elevators only, sometimes even escalators don’t help. You need to restart the game and with luck they become one zone they are supposed to be.

Can you file a bug report with a save in which this happens with steps on how to reproduce this (please reference the bug report number)? Looking through our backlog as of now I do not see any patterns of secure zone bug reports.

@Pasi

If you keep everything as one zone, departing and arrival sides, arriving people try to access departing side. Separate them into 2 zones and you get different problems.

It’s difficult to tell from only this text but I assume you’re trying to do a joint secure zone with split security checkpoints? This is not a supported design and will probably cause your passengers to enter into a departure area where they, through the secure zone checkpoint, believe they have access to the boarding desk but then as their path is blocked they do not.

@Pasi

Path analysis tool just confirms what you already know, someone can’t access some area but there is no explanation why, on same security or non secure zone. No visible reason, still can’t find their way

The tool is used as a verification system for the player to ensure that a passenger can get from point A to point B, and highlights through with zone portals it does that. If there is no path available then it cannot show a path, so I am not sure I understand what you’d like it to express? The tool was rolled out as a response to a very large amount of bug reports coming in from users who did not understand the core mechanics of transitioning persons between zones, a number that fell after the release of the tool.

@Pasi

We still can’t define on the parking lot detail, which vehicles are allowed to each parking lot.

Well, we’ve always ran a complaint driven development process and If this would have been a bigger issue during the rollout of this feature we would have acted on it. We still might of course but as I survey the ACEO community I am not seeing a large number of requests for this feature as opposed to intersecting runways, for example.

@Pasi

Assigning road restrictions for short section, for example in front of a parking lot, of the main road, causes vehicles still trying to access areas behind that because that area isn’t limited. Just access to it is.

The feature is indeed intended to only limit access on a per road node basis and does not contain a system for excluding access to whatever is behind it (although we do make some limitations to ensure that buses for example are not spawned in road areas where they have no access whatsoever to any bus stops).

Implementing it the way you’d like would be extremely complex since you in ACEO basically have close to limitless options of constructing and laying out your road networks. It would certainly be possible but the calculations involved would be very heavy, if you for example were to have 10 number of parking lots that were delimited by 50 different node restrictions, that would put a significant additional strain on the simulation engine as it would need to be something that is calculated per vehicle and location every time it would try to perform a parking activity. That’s always one of the core aspects we’ve had to think about as we designed and implemented features into this game, every safety system we implement will pull in a negative performance direction and in most cases we’ve opted for performance instead of 100% solid feedback systems. That’s because we do agree with the general philosophy that @88ekke outlines. When it comes to management games, part of the fun and part of the beauty is debugging the pathing issues you’re faced with. But I also fully understand if you don’t like this aspect of the game, it would come down to a matter of taste in my opinion.

As for your other points, especially 7, I would again request bug reports and then perhaps mentioning them either here or via support@airportceo.com so that we can have a specific look at them in relation to the discussion we’re having here.

@Pasi

This probably caused your code to be a bit of a messy one which is hard to fix, understandable, but it’s not our fault as end users that your game still has several bugs and quality issues, especially with AI related stuff.

The ACEO code base is in general working well but it is not something we’d want to build another game on, correct. You are of course entitled to your opinion in regards to the game’s quality and stability but as developers we need to look at the bigger picture. With a Steam rating of between 85 to 90 percent across 4500 reviews, and just now more recently a few different reviews from minor news-outlets which range between 50 to 80 percent, factoring in that this is a 22 euro game with a 7 percent return rate (which is below the Steam average of about 8 to 9 percent) and an average play time of 44 hours (median 15 hours) - it would appear as if most people are enjoying the game. Just wanted to shed some light on what number’s we’re looking at.

@Pasi

As a customer, based on my current experience, I’m reluctant to give your studio any more money at this time.

That is great. The games industry overall certainly needs more customers voting with their wallet, not pre-ordering games and not continuing to buy titles from studios they don’t have any faith in. If the way we develop our games or the quality of our titles fail you meet your, or anyone elses, demands we always ask that you leave an honest review and voice your opinion (like you’ve done) so that other’s can make a more informed purchase. In the end, if enough players are not satisfied, that is an obvious indication to us that we are doing something wrong and will need to change direction in order to achieve those happy customers.

@Pasi

Also, I see you keep making a reference how players don’t understand some mechanics and thus cause issues on their game play. Hardly their fault when the game doesn’t help one bit to clearly understand the mechanics and devs never wrote a manual or a FAQ of any kind where one would find clear and detailed explanations on why something what should work doesn’t, and why somethings need to be done differently than in real life.

I think we’ve always been pretty clear on communicating that this issue is in fact, and always has been definitely our fault and if that is not apparent then I am highlighting that once again now. It’s a result of extremely ad-hoc development over several years resulting in quirky systems and clunky controls and something that players today both hate and love. Again something that comes down to taste in regards to whether or not you like the game.

[Shaquille]

How do I change the direction of travel on the runway?

[fredehorn]

Demilosh and rebuild

[Shaquille]

Breaking flight schedules and passenger traffic by rebuilding the runway in order to change the direction of landing and takeoff of aircraft is of course strong. Someone strongly did not want to bother.

[fredehorn]

Agreed, same as inreasing legth as it was possible before…

[jasperwillem]

Maybe it could be an “upgrade” item? “Change direction”.

[andyc]

Yes, change the direction manually would be a very very very good improvement.
If it causes issues, then close the runway first to make sure no plane is assigned to it.

[Shaquille]

There is so much money in the game (even taking into account the fact that Belanger has been fixed) that removing the runway and rebuilding it for a loss of $ 500,000, but with a different direction, does not cause any problems. It doesn’t matter if the flights go wrong, the passengers will be stuck at the airport and the rating will be lost. Anyway, this award is almost mythical. After all, most will not wait 183 years to win it. ))
I have the following question. I already wrote that the game is about building an airport, not about transporting passengers. The question is what, for example, international transportation for what? To simply create a zone and install passport control turnstiles? I’ve never built them. What for? The fact of the matter is that in the game there are things that are made for nothing, for no purpose, but simply for themselves, so that they are.
So these things can be played up, make a DLC based on them, because the potential of the game is far from being revealed.

[Shaquille]

The bottom line is that you play ACEO while you are interested in building. The game does not set any tasks. It seems that the developers themselves are not fans of the genre in which they made the game, because they do not admit the idea that players would be interested in performing the tasks that airports face in real life, namely, attracting new airlines in order to increase passenger traffic.

[andyc]

In the default international mode: if you want big planes, you are forced to build an international zone. Otherwise you cannot run large stands.

In the realistic mode: depending on country your airport is located, you may require to build stands within an international zone to get flights offered for a specific stand size.

[Shaquille]

Thank you. I live in Russia. )))

[andyc]

Yeah, there I think it’s easy to get large domestic flights.
Try Switzerland or Malta.

[Shaquille]

The game does not set any tasks for me, in the end I am having fun as much as I can. So I started the construction of the airport in order to transport 50,000,000 passengers as soon as possible, but I am building it next to the place where I grew up, in Khabarovsk. )

And I would like to build an airport, sell it. And start buying planes on the sly in order to develop their own airline, to make it one of the largest in the world.

[humoresque]

Are you asking me to make a most detailed airport contest? I’m sure a few people would be challenged by that…

[jasperwillem]

@Shaquille

[Aiport CEO] do[es] not admit the idea that players would be interested in performing the tasks that airports face in real life, namely, attracting new airlines in order to increase passenger traffic.

For me the financial part of the game is the most dull part, you cannot refinance loans and you cannot leverage your net worth into bigger loans over time. Especially if playing in Expert mode, burning out a big loan when in the red is very dull. When you have reinvestment room of about 2.000.000 in loans when all loans active, you are sitting on your hands, because you are -30.000 in the red due to an oil crisis. Which feels completely unrealistic. As logistics expert, I am amazed at the amount of time that is put in “simulating” the right door for deliveries for a plane type, while the economy; a core game element, is on the backburner.

Another feature which is behind, is staff management. The fact that the staff menus drop downs are still unsynced, is annoying me each time I boot up the game, besides the fact that it is also impossible to perform batch hires. When extending big terminals that need 60-100 ramp agents and 200 support staffers, you are clicking around forever and then you are not even training all staff; which should have an auto train feature just like contract management. Which would train all staff over time into their max skills. After you have to do another 100-200 clicks for all vehicles hires and assignments, which also cannot be ordered in big numbers.

With disasters, it still feels wrong, that emails that give you fines, are not guiding you into solving the base problem. So, if you do not understand why you get fined, the fines will come again and again, without you as a player having any idea what’s up. You just see your balance drained.

Same for the lack of an alert when your ATC is maxed, you are then pissing money in the wind with more stands, wondering why you loose money. Your operations email is not telling you, that you are hitting your max, nor you are getting an alert when the auto planner maxes out.

Then there are still black boxes; ratings. Which not display how they are improved. The biggest problem is “inventing” medium and large planes. Since the airline satisfaction will drop significantly the moment you invent those tiers, since your airline contracts will demand those planes immediately. So, the moment you invent a big leap forward, your game starts hammering losses, since your airliners will drop the rating and punish you for not having infra ready instantly, at scale. So, while building your new infra, you are hammering losses. Which is a very bad experience, since it is not explained anywhere and when you do happen to open your flight planner that is on auto-plan mode, it is not explained, why you had a big drop in airline satisfaction and a drop in the # of flights, since the service level on the lower tier stands is exactly the same as before the new tier inventions. Your operation and financial emails do also not show a trend warning for dropping airline satisfaction; so you have no management information to steer the ship. You just have to know.

[Shaquille]

@jasperwillem

For me the financial part of the game is the most dull part, you cannot refinance loans and you cannot leverage your net worth into bigger loans over time. Especially if playing in Expert mode, burning out a big loan when in the red is very dull.

Out of 4 times I played the first 3 on hard, and I never had any problems with money. I built a profitable terminal for credit, went for a run, for 2 hours, and when I returned, there was enough money to build another terminal.

@jasperwillem

Another feature which is behind, is staff management.

Yes, there is a lot of clickbait, but we don’t build an airport very often. People have to be found first, it takes time. And the option to hang all this in auto mode on the HR director is a bad idea, in my opinion.

@jasperwillem

With disasters, it still feels wrong, that emails that give you fines, are not guiding you into solving the base problem.

Usually, when dangerous baggage slipped through, and I had everything at max training and the scanner system, as in a textbook or too lazy to cancel the flight with his hands, in order to bring in an emergency one instead, I said - yes, take these 5000/25000, I will not get poorer.

@jasperwillem

Then there are still black boxes; ratings.

I play for the first time after the release, and I have a rating of 95% (they wrote that the rating system was fixed), despite the fact that GA pulls me down with its 88-90%, although I gave them all the best, and I charge them for their services " 1 $ ", and they fly from the runway, where, in addition to them, 3 more stands are involved. I don’t know what they want. Getting an award is not easy, and here you need to be lucky, like in poker.

[jasperwillem]

@Shaquille

Out of 4 times I played the first 3 on hard, and I never had any problems with money. I built a profitable terminal for credit, went for a run, for 2 hours, and when I returned, there was enough money to build another terminal.

Yes, planning large time gaps are needed in game, what I find to be bad game design.

And the option to hang all this in auto mode on the HR director is a bad idea, in my opinion.

My proposal does not automate it for free.

---

My list, is not just about my experience, it is also helping others in the support threads for a few years, things people tend not to understand in the game. But also experiences I found in other games where I help people with the economy side of those games.

[Shaquille]

I play in the easiest mode, on a large map, in a location where the construction of an international zone is not required, without mods. The goal is 50 million paks, for the minimum in-game time. This is because there is such an achievement in Steam. Who wants to join. Let’s create a post and update it as the results appear. We will determine the most unbiased one, we will send him the save from the game for verification. In the post, you can talk about your airport with screenshots, and the first message will be the updated results.

[Olof]

@andyc

Yes, change the direction manually would be a very very very good improvement.
If it causes issues, then close the runway first to make sure no plane is assigned to it.

That to me sounds like a fair tradeoff and since I’ve seen requests of this both here and on Reddit we’ll have a look at implementing this in a future release.

[B738Flyer]

oof, haven’t been here in ages. Anything important i missed?