Not possible for it to be destination driven algorithm, not a step by step? I dont know the exact terms for it, but example below: Destination driven: Need to get to gate X, therfore need to enter secure area Y, therfore need to go through security Z. No problem Step by step: Need to check in, therefore choose closest check in. Then need to go through security, therefore choose closest security. Then need to go to gate X, but stuck because in wrong secure zone. Gate is in the other zone.
Add baggage into this, and program has to decide the final destination of baggage and passenger, and work backwards from there
Yes, it could be possible but it is more of a design question. The less the passenger and object knows about their surrounding, the better the code can be maintained and there are less rooms for errors. This requires storing a lot of information in the passenger models and object which must be correctly saved and loaded. Also if any changes to the paths occur such as a removed object or blocked path, the system must adapt and correct. It is all very much possible and we might go for it later on but now we want the basics to work.
In summary we have a lot of ideas on how to improve this area, which we will look into after initial release (kind of the standard answer).
So as built we kind of can have multiple terminals, provided they all share the same security area (which presumably would be as little as a corridor). This is akin to some real life airports such as Dublin, Birmingham (historically), Amsterdam (it could be argued) and I’m sure many others.
Exactly, basically passengers are only allowed to plot paths within their current area. When they arrive at the airport, they can plot in the “open” area meaning non secure terminal + sidewalks + crosswalks. When they have transitioned to the secure area, they are limited to plotting within that area. So as long as the secure area is connected, the current system should be able to handle that.
Could you implement a simple check that if they cannot path to gate they search for other security areas and try to get to them? Wouldn’t solve the main issue but it would make it less of a “bug” that they get stuck in one security area over the other.
The thing is that the gate is not assigned until the aircraft has landed so there is currently no way for them to know that. There is no time to start making these changes now, yesterday, I was only going to add the world size to the game saves so that we can have saves with different world sizes. I thought it would take less than 1 hour because it is simply a X and Y value to serialize. It ended up taking 5 hours due to many systems being dependent on the grid size being correctly loaded. This is how software development works and therefore we are not making any major changes at this point as it will jeopardize the release.
A better system could be assigning Gates to planes when accepting contracts. I really didn’t get how the current Flight planning panel works. I was seriously expecting to assign planes to gates.
But yes we want the game for now. Waited too long for it.
Was about to post just that. I also assumed we would assign flights to the gates. Now it sounds like not only would this make sense for us players, but could solve other code issues on the backend.
So what would happen if a flight is delayed while boarding for example and the gate is not available for the next flight? Assigning gates on arrival gives you needed flexibility
In that event maybe a backup gate gets assigned and passengers are told to move to new gate. Happens IRL this way as well. If nothing is avail maybe the plane circles a while, and if too long lands elsewhere and you get a major reputation hit with airline.
I know people don’t like to talk about that other game which-must-not-be-named , but they had a lot of problems due to assigning gates, in case of a delay the following plane assigned to that gate wouldn’t land (cancelling the flight).
Recently they launched a patch which assigns standby gates. I haven’t tried it so I don’t know if you need to assign a specific gate for this purpose or if it considers any free gate as a standby gate. IRL it works kind of this way, so I agree that gate assigning should be somewhat of a priority (if not now, after release).
Yea that is true, the other game did recently add backup gates, but I also didn’t get to trying it out.
One thing that will add to the challenge is assigning gates. If your airport isn’t efficient enough to get planes off on time, it will cause issues downstream. Remember we set the times they land. If you are stacking flights too close together it’s ultimately on you that the problem is happening. Maybe you get 30 minutes past the time the next flight lands, if it’s gate isnt free (or an alternate gate) then, it diverts and you get dinged for a cancel.
Gate assigning adds a great challenge in many perspectives. When connecting flights are added it will be crucial to have same airline flights together (or even partner airlines if we get to have this). If we get to have different staff for different airlines same thing, imagine them walking all across the terminal every time a plane lands.
This is a very important design aspect that today sor of overrules the simplicity of assigning flights to gates. While that might make more sense and give the player the feeling of having a more direct control, delays can cause quite stupid queue build-ups. If that occurs the player must then be alerted so that they can change the gate but that in turn kind of makes the gate assigning procedure sort of unnecessary. Having it automated as it is now makes stuff less interdependent and more flexible.
It’s always also important to step back and look at the game we’re building. Is it Airport CEO or Air Traffic Controller Simulator 2017? While the concept of generic rows and generic flight scheduling without assigned gates may be a bit more difficult to communicate it is a lot easier to handle from a simulation perspective and it is quite unrealistic that the CEO would be tasked with rescheduling flights.
Of course, it could also be so that hiring a COO would make it automatic. I don’t know, we’ll have to think about this one.
The system reverts to automatic gate allocation - the flight simply goes to the nearest available gate if there is one available. This is essentially the system we have now, but with the additional step of us assigning a gate at the start.
Manual intervention - the flight clears the runway and holds for instructions, triggering a prompt to the player to assign the flight to a gate. Realistic, but cumbersome for the CEO. And, as has been pointed out, this is not an air traffic control simulator.
A system whereby you list gates in order of preference - I think this is too cumbersome and just gets moreso as the airport expands.
I’d opt for option one. The gate allocation is respected where possible, but in the event of delays or other problems the computer (your ground crew/ATC) will sort the problem out for you. In the event of this causing further clashes, you could either let the AI sort it out or there would be time for the control freaks (like me) to manually intervene before the next planes land (if the game allocates the flight to a stand that will cause a clash, a message could appear to prompt/inform the CEO). This is probably how most airports run anyway - the gate allocations are assigned in advance, and may be varied at the last minute due to operational issues.
I do think that, to an extent, the management do have some interest in gate allocation. Airlines may request certain gates (perhaps to facilitate connections, or for access to lounges, or even just proximity to customer service desks, or proximity to their other flights to allow the ground crew to be more efficient). If the airline is going to build a lounge and customer service desk in an airport, it will want their flights to be departing nearby. Not much point building a lounge at gate 1 when the flight ends up departing from gate 79G, and when money and reputation are at stake you better believe it would become the CEO’s problem. Similarly, Cheapo Airways might want to utilise their staff to the max to keep costs down, so they’d much rather have flights departing from gates 3 and 4 (allowing ground staff to work with two planes, or at least be able to move from one to the other in a matter of seconds) than going from gates 3 and 48 (which may require additional staff). Again, when it comes to money, it ends up being the CEO’s problem. Remote stands, again, could be a contentious issue for airlines - the more prestigious airlines may not be best pleased with their passengers being bussed half way across an airfield. Lots of these things are features that we have discussed, so allocating gates isn’t too far away from our duties.
And, as I’ve said elsewhere, if you are just using the existing grid but upgrading it to equate a row to a gate (which is probably how I’d use it practically anyway), then it should be no more cumbersome for the casual player who doesn’t really care about gate allocations.
Maybe atleast setting gate priorities.
Maybe a middle road between setting each flight’s gate manually, and leaving the assignment completely up to the path finding algorithm.
I explained this idea a little more here:
Personally, I’d like the ability to assign a gate to either “Open” which any airline will use and a gate assigned to an airline. This way I’m able to group all of Maple’s flights for example on the same concourse, also I would be able to build a lounge close to their gates increasing passenger satisfaction, and it makes logical sense once connections are implemented. If it ever gets to the point where airlines may provide their own staff members grouping gates also makes sense.
Optimizing everything to me is half the fun. I look at games like Prison Architect and Factorio and optimization plays a large role in those games.
I really like what your idea. There should at the very least be an option where we can assign a gate to be either “Open” so any airline can be there. Or have the gate assigned to an airline of your choice.
Aerodrome ATC is responsible for giving flight plan clearances, taxi control and runway control. Saying that ATC is responsible for assigning gates is just not accurate. They are the ones who transmit this to pilots, but they are not the ones who define it. Gate assingment is defined by airport administration. We are not going to hate the game if this is not available, but you need to consider the lack of realism that random gate selection creates and consider our wishes of micromanagement.
, but they had a lot of problems due to assigning gates, in case of a delay the following plane assigned to that gate wouldn’t land (cancelling the flight).