With the first large aircraft about to enter Airport CEO it becomes inevitable to talk about the implementation of middle and large runways as well. Currently the game only provides us with a small runway, but what is the background:
As many of you might know, runway length is not the sole factor that determines what kind of aircraft a runway can accomodate. The other two main factors are width and PCN (Pavement Classification Number = Strength of the surface). In real life, the smallest runways used mainly by GA-only airports have a width of 23m and the smallest runways used for commercial aviation are normally 30m. Medium airliners usually require 45m width to operate without any limitation and most major international airports with a lot of widebody traffic commonly have 60m wide runways.
Why it should be implemented:
The current small runway is just too narrow to have big jets operating on them and also it would add a lot more progression and flavor to the game if only the small runway is available at game start and medium and large runways must be procured (if desired).
How it should work:
Since all airside objects in Airport CEO seem to be at a scale of 1:2 I propose the following stats:
Small runway: minimum 600m x 24m (75 tiles long as right now and 3 tiles wide), able to accomodate GA traffic and small commercial flights.
Medium runway: minimum 1000m x 40m (125 tiles long and 5 tiles wide), able to accomodate medium aircraft.
Large runway: minimum 1400m x 56m (175 tiles long and 7 tiles wide), able to accomodate large aircraft.
Along with it, respective runway entry and exit taxiways at 3 tiles width for small runways, 5 tiles width for medium runways and 7 tiles width for large runways should be implemented.
If anybody thinks that my proposed runway lentgths are too long I would like to remind you that 1000m for medium and 1400m for large aircraft are already about half of the length usually required in real life and runways in game come at a scale of 1:2 which means that they will be actually 500m and 700m long, so just a quarter of the lenghts in real life.
For me as a pilot, this is a must have since it would increase realism and add more flavor to the game. Let me know what you think.
I like this point of view have been thinking about posting something like the above myself.
Great idea! Although if this is implemented, small planes should be able to land on all 3 types, and medium sized planes on medium and large size runways for obvious reasons…
One could also argue that all large aircraft are usually capable of operating from 45m runways. For that reason an alternative could be to make the small runway 32m wide (4 tiles) and add just one bigger runway above it which is 48m wide (6 tiles) for medium and large aircraft. Lengths requirements should not be less than I proposed in my initial post. Two runway types instead of three may make it less complex if desired.
Maybe I get another point of view, as soon as large aircrafts got into the game and I see the differences in size myself.
But for now: Do large aircrafts really need taxiways that width (7 tiles)? I do understand for runways, as they come in with influences by (side) winds and at a high speed. But once they are taxiing on the ground at low speed, shouldn’t 5 tiles still be enough?
I love this idea, but would opt for a 1600 m long runway for the large aircraft.
In regards to the taxiway, perhaps we can judge that when the first large type will be available in the beta-test. I would not mind building the taxiway 7-wide BTW for the larger aircraft.
You have a point with that. Standard taxiway width is usually 23m so 5 tiles should be fine also for large aircraft. However, as you said, it might look different when the aircraft is actually taxiing on it as the shoulders of the current taxiways ingame are quite wide as well. We shall see.
But I definitely want 3 tiles wide runway entries and exits as that is wide enough for GA and small aircraft and also, should my proposal of narrowing the current small runway should be implemented, it would look quite weird if the runway is 3 or 4 tiles wide and the smallest runway entry or exit is 5 tiles wide.
Me too Its need in game because meadium flights cant taxi on 3 tiles wide runway entries.
How is the width calculated in your post? In my game, wingspan of B738 and A320 is already larger than 5 tiles (maybe 7?). Putting to scale, I was expecting the taxiway for class F aircraft to be at least 10 tiles wide. I say that because I use 5-tile taxiways now and wingtips of 738 and 320 invade the adjoining stands and overlap tails of larger aircraft, like 757 and 321.
I think you are talking about the apron. As far as I know there is no minimum or maximum width for taxiways on the apron and it is up to the designer in the real world or in this case ingame (you) to make taxiways on the apron big enough for aircraft to pass each other with enough margin. And as the game is right now, you are free to build however big taxiways you want.
In my post I am merely talking about runway entries and exits to connect your taxiways to. Right now we only have the 5-tiles wide option, which is the same width as the current small runway, which is pretty unrealistic. However, taxiways in the real world do not have to cover for the full wingspan of every aircraft taxiing on it and neither do runways. The required width is mostly a function of turning radius and the width of the landing gear. As stated above, standard ICAO taxiway width is 23m and most airports that handle large aircraft provide 30m wide taxiways outside the apron. The current 5-tile taxiway equals even more than 30m, however with the bigger medium aircraft like 757 taxiing on it, it looks barely wide enough, probably because the shoulders are quite big. So I guess we have to wait until the large aircraft are implemented to see what they look like taxiing on it.
But I’m really bothered by runways and taxiways having the same width right now. We definitely need a wider option for runways.
Thanks. Yes, you are right. I was referring to the apron when describing colliding wingtips.
However, my question on measurement units remains. In a post above you imply that 5 tiles would represent 40m wide (i.e. 8m per tile). However, aircraft are not to scale with that measurement then, because the wingspan of a 738 or A320 is 36m. In the game world, the wingspan is larger than 5 tiles.
Also agree that 45m and 60m runways should be implemented. But, again, the scale is very confusing to me now.
Planes are scaled down in the game to the rest of the items buy only a small amount.
The meaning of measurement is quite simple. Within the terminal 1 small square equals 1 square meter. That becomes apparent when creating any kind of bathroom or restaurant etc. If you build a taxiway that is as long as a 800m runway, you will find out that it’s 100 tiles long. The rest is simple math. If 800m equals 100 tiles it means one big tile is 8mx8m although it’s just 4x4 small squares. So everything airside comes in a scale of 1:2.And unfortunately you are right with the planes. They come in a scale anywhere in between.
I do hope that they rescale it back to 1:1 when the performance can handle the sizing of the map good enough, I tried a few times to recreate a existing airport but I made the scaling error a few times so nothing wasnlooking as neatly as I wanted
each small square is 1x1 meter, and each large one is 4x4 small ones, and thus 4x4 meter
Got it. This is a relevant point to the devs, @Olof, if you can please consider.
I get that airside and terminal can have different scales. However, planes, runways and taxiways should have the same scale, otherwise we end up with 36m wingspan planes that need a 50m apron to fit that same wingspan.
When large planes are implemented, this will became a relevant issue.
In case @Olof is following this thread, my humble suggestion would be:
With the implementation of large aircraft a new kind of runway becomes inevitable. That would be the perfect timing to match the scale of runways and planes. Leave the parking stands and planes as they are and implement a large runway that matches the scale of the planes in width and length and make the current small runway only usable by small and medium aircraft.
I figured that the scale of the planes is about 1:1,4 so why not call it 1,5 for the sake of simplicity. So a 600m small runway would have to be 100 tiles long. Make the minimum for medium planes 900m=150 tiles and the large runway minimum 1200m=200 tiles and 7 tiles wide. So 5 tiles would be equal to 30m length. This means that everything players would have to do to keep their current savegames valid is to increase the existing small runway to at least 100 tiles for small and 150 tiles for medium aircraft.
To me this sounds like it can be achieved without too much trouble and the same scale for planes and runways would definitely benefit the game.
Afaik, the planes are 70% of real life and all the items are at a real life scale (1 m^2)
@Guusje2 Please have a look yourself at the runways, they are at 50%. Current 600m runway is 75 tiles long and 5 tiles wide. Compared to the rest that would be 300x20m. Medium aircraft require 800m runway, which is less then half compared to real world. The actual used space however is only 100 tiles long and 5 tiles wide, so 400x20m. That is less than one quarter of reality. Therefore I suggest to make runways at approximately the same scale as planes (about 1:1,5). That benefits realism and pleases my eyes I have some understanding, that actual 2000m or longer runways don’t make sense ingame and that’s why I suggested 600m for small, 900m for medium and 1200m for large aircraft at a scale of 1:1,5.